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[Music]

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hello and welcome to episode number 59

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of the point of convergence podcast

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as always i am your host exo academian

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over the last several episodes we've

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been discussing some of the more bizarre

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even absurd elements of the ufo

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phenomenon

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for anyone who's taken the time to do a

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truly deep dive into the data behind

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this phenomenon it is clear there is

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much to make sense of here much that

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doesn't fit well with certain cookie

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cutter predetermined hypotheses meant to

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make sense of the data

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two episodes ago we discussed jacques

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vallee's groundbreaking genre stretching

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and controversial book passport to

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magonia from folklore to flying saucers

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where valet drew our attention to

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parallels between elements of the

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so-called ufo phenomenon and events from

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both religious history and historic

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fairy lore

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beyond somewhat superficial differences

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the overlap is clear

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and in our last episode we dove directly

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into an investigation

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of the absurd or ridiculous nature of

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many of these encounters with supposed

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aliens

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while we should always be wary of

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anthropocentric notions of how supposed

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space aliens should behave it is

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difficult to look past the overwhelming

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degree of absurdity

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in many of these encounters

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are they merely so strange because we

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cannot make heads or tales of the

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actions of a much more sophisticated

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intelligence

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or species whose rationality supersedes

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our own

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or are the events themselves simply

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absurd full stop

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following up on his exhaustive study of

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the data we've covered over the last

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couple of episodes

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velay along with his colleague physicist

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eric davis

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published a position paper titled

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incommensurability orthodoxy and the

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physics of high strangeness a six-layer

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model for anomalous phenomena

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in which they lay out the challenges

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that confront us in trying to study a

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phenomenon that is so rich in elements

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of high strangeness and paranormality

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this paper though only totaling nine

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pages is rich in detail

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touching on many of the key elements

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that anyone studying this phenomenon

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should be paying close attention to

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beyond presenting these elements in a

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clear and concise manner this paper by

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valet and davis also makes clear many of

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the misguided assumptions that various

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researchers make in trying to pin down

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the ultimate origin and nature of the

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apparent intelligence behind the

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mind-bending activity associated with

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the ufo phenomenon

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while also proposing the broad

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brushstrokes of a wave forward utilizing

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a multi-pronged and multi-disciplinary

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approach

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a deep dive into the informative and

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insightful nature of this paper by

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jacques villa and eric davis is the

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topic of this the 59th episode of the

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point of convergence podcast

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[Music]

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as we begin this week's episode let's

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just touch base on who these two figures

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are

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the authors of this position paper

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we all know jacques valet he's probably

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been talked about on this podcast more

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so than anyone else and by a wide margin

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eric davis is also a key player in the

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ufo phenomenon and has been for a very

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long time

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because he has so many clearances he has

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probably seen more of the top secret

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data pertaining to the ufo phenomenon

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than anyone else or as much as anyone

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else certainly

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and davis has also been on the record

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saying some very interesting and

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informative things

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about ufos and what the government knows

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about them

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davis who currently works for the

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defense contractor aerospace corporation

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has said before that we couldn't make

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these ourselves or something to that

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effect regarding the nature of the

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materials that have been recovered

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davis also gave a classified briefing to

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the defense department regarding the

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matter of crash retrievals of ufos

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and he was quoted as saying these are

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quote off-world vehicles not made on

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this earth unquote and by the way that's

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a quote from the new york times article

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published in july of 2020 by leslie kane

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and ralph blumenthal

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i bring these matters to your attention

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to make the point that these two figures

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jacques valet and eric davis are exactly

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the kind of people we should be

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listening closely to regarding how we

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should study this phenomenon and what's

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been discovered so far in attempting to

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study and make heads or tales of this

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phenomenon they know as much of the data

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as anyone on the planet

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all right let's jump right into this

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paper

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again titled incommensurability

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orthodoxy and the physics of high

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strangeness a six-layer model for

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anomalous phenomena

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we begin by talking about the challenge

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of high strangeness quoting from this

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paper quote

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the rational study of reported cases of

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unidentified aerial phenomena uap

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including religious apparitions such as

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the so-called miracles of fatima and

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other mural events is currently at an

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impasse

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this situation has as much to do with

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the incomplete state of our models of

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physical reality as it does with the

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complexity of the data unquote

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now that's important right from the

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get-go so they're already bringing into

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the picture not just sightings of ufos

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slash uap as they're often referred to

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now especially in government circles

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but they're also bringing in

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so-called religious events or events

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that have been interpreted as religious

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in nature such as the miracles of fatima

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the miracle of the sun that happened in

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1917

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in portugal

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so already we're seeing the full breadth

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of the kind of data they're including as

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part of the ufo phenomenon and there's

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also a sentence right at the beginning

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there the second sentence indeed that i

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want to draw your attention to

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again they say quote this situation has

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as much to do with the incomplete state

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of our models of physical reality as it

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does with the complexity of the data

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unquote and i say here here absolutely

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that's something we should pay attention

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to

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that's what this phenomenon should be

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telling us the data when we look at it

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should be telling us that our current

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models are incomplete

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insufficient perhaps even a fair bit off

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base how else can these things be

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happening and yet we know they are so

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let's keep that in mind as we continue

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getting back to the paper quote a

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primary objection of the reality of uap

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events among scientists is that

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witnesses consistently report objects

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whose seemingly absurd behavior

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cannot possibly be related to actual

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phenomena

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even under extreme conditions

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in that respect the similarity is

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striking between contemporary events

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reported as ufo close encounters and the

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more traditional observations of

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entities described as angels elves and

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fairies or deities

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unquote

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so again this is ironic here in a way

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because rather than looking at the data

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and pursuing it from a scientific point

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of view what valet and davis are

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pointing out here is that many skeptics

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many of those who are in the scientific

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mainstream refuse to even look at this

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phenomenon look at the data because they

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assume a priori that it is too absurd to

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be possible again they say here it

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cannot possibly be related to actual

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phenomena again that's a very

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unscientific way to proceed again we're

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assuming our model of reality is correct

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and because that's the case these things

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can't happen supposedly and yet they are

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so this highlights the extreme prejudice

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that currently exists in this scientific

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mainstream which has prevented dedicated

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ongoing research on a broad basis that's

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problem number one

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notice here that valee and davis also

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draw our attention again to the

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similarity between many of the elements

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reported by experiencers and witnesses

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and historic fairy lore what was

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reported by people in history of course

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modern people don't generally think of

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these fairy tales as real as based on

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actual events they think they're playful

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made up stories

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and yet the irony is many of the

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elements are exactly the same and

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contemporary human beings tend to

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dismiss both of them meaning narratives

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regarding the ufo phenomenon and fairy

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lore merely because of the nature of the

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elements themselves namely that they are

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too absurd to be taken seriously

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alright getting back to the paper quote

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skeptics insist that superior beings

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celestial ambassadors or intelligent

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extraterrestrial visitors simply would

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not perpetuate such antics as are

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reported in the literature

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this argument can be criticized as an

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anthropocentric self-selected

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observation resulting from our own

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limited viewpoint as 21st century homo

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sapiens trying to draw conclusions about

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the nature of the universe

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nonetheless the high strangeness of many

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reports and the absurdity attending

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religious miracles must be acknowledged

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unquote

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so again the preposterous response from

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skeptics is that this isn't how such

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beings would behave as if we would know

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that as if we have any way of judging

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accurately how such beings should behave

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when by definition they are not human

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beings they're not anything we're

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familiar with they're either superior

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extraterrestrial intelligence supposedly

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or even celestial ambassadors spiritual

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angels and whatnot how would we know how

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such beings would behave

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and that's the point that valle and

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davis are making here this is an

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anthropocentric self-selected

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observation

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resulting from our own limited viewpoint

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as 21st century homo sapiens that's the

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point they make and it's a good point

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it's not only that we demonstrate an

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anthropocentric bias but we do so

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specifically from a 21st century homo

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sapien perspective what looks reasonable

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to us which again is absurd in itself

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that we would think that we can tell

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these others how they should behave if

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it is in fact extraterrestrial

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intelligence or celestial ambassadors of

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some sort the bottom line is we do not

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know how such beings would behave and we

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shouldn't project our assumptions our

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biases our prejudices onto the data we

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should look at the data and go from

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there

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00:11:21,829 --> 00:11:18,959
so so far we've covered a couple

285
00:11:24,470 --> 00:11:21,839
important points number one the ufo

286
00:11:26,949 --> 00:11:24,480
phenomenon data may be revealing to us

287
00:11:29,110 --> 00:11:26,959
the clear lack of true understanding we

288
00:11:30,310 --> 00:11:29,120
have as to the ultimate nature of

289
00:11:33,269 --> 00:11:30,320
reality

290
00:11:35,430 --> 00:11:33,279
and number two it is prejudice and bias

291
00:11:37,430 --> 00:11:35,440
that prevents the scientific community

292
00:11:39,590 --> 00:11:37,440
who should be the ones looking into this

293
00:11:41,509 --> 00:11:39,600
from even taking it seriously to begin

294
00:11:43,990 --> 00:11:41,519
with so shame on the scientific

295
00:11:46,710 --> 00:11:44,000
community the mainstream and valet and

296
00:11:49,030 --> 00:11:46,720
davis have made that point clearly

297
00:11:51,509 --> 00:11:49,040
but they're not done with their critique

298
00:11:54,310 --> 00:11:51,519
of various human groups next they're

299
00:11:56,150 --> 00:11:54,320
going to talk about ufologists those who

300
00:11:58,790 --> 00:11:56,160
do propose the extraterrestrial

301
00:12:00,150 --> 00:11:58,800
hypothesis as a way to make sense of

302
00:12:03,030 --> 00:12:00,160
this data

303
00:12:05,750 --> 00:12:03,040
quoting again from this paper quote

304
00:12:07,590 --> 00:12:05,760
advocates of uap reality on the other

305
00:12:10,949 --> 00:12:07,600
hand generally claim that the

306
00:12:12,949 --> 00:12:10,959
extraterrestrial hypothesis eth

307
00:12:15,670 --> 00:12:12,959
centered on interstellar travelers from

308
00:12:18,150 --> 00:12:15,680
extrasolar systems visiting the earth

309
00:12:20,710 --> 00:12:18,160
remains the most likely explanation for

310
00:12:21,829 --> 00:12:20,720
the objects and the entities associated

311
00:12:23,829 --> 00:12:21,839
with them

312
00:12:25,509 --> 00:12:23,839
accordingly they would reinterpret

313
00:12:28,150 --> 00:12:25,519
biblical stories and religious

314
00:12:30,069 --> 00:12:28,160
apparitions in the framework of visits

315
00:12:32,389 --> 00:12:30,079
from space aliens

316
00:12:35,670 --> 00:12:32,399
this argument too can be challenged on

317
00:12:38,470 --> 00:12:35,680
the basis of the witness's own testimony

318
00:12:41,269 --> 00:12:38,480
ufologists have consistently ignored

319
00:12:44,870 --> 00:12:41,279
or minimized reports of seemingly absurd

320
00:12:47,590 --> 00:12:44,880
behaviors that contradict the eth by

321
00:12:50,310 --> 00:12:47,600
selectively extracting data that best

322
00:12:51,350 --> 00:12:50,320
fits their agenda or version of the

323
00:12:54,150 --> 00:12:51,360
theory

324
00:12:57,030 --> 00:12:54,160
thus the eth just like the skeptical

325
00:12:58,550 --> 00:12:57,040
argument is based on anthropocentric

326
00:13:00,550 --> 00:12:58,560
self-selection

327
00:13:02,629 --> 00:13:00,560
here we are witnessing an interesting

328
00:13:04,790 --> 00:13:02,639
overlap between the seti

329
00:13:07,350 --> 00:13:04,800
and uap paradigms

330
00:13:09,509 --> 00:13:07,360
each excludes consideration of the other

331
00:13:13,269 --> 00:13:09,519
when laying claim to the legitimate

332
00:13:16,629 --> 00:13:13,279
search for and contact with potential

333
00:13:19,350 --> 00:13:16,639
non-human intelligence unquote

334
00:13:21,910 --> 00:13:19,360
so again a really key paragraph

335
00:13:23,509 --> 00:13:21,920
and valley and davis make the point that

336
00:13:25,430 --> 00:13:23,519
those who would support the

337
00:13:27,430 --> 00:13:25,440
extraterrestrial hypothesis those who

338
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:27,440
would want to put that forward to the

339
00:13:32,230 --> 00:13:29,600
scientific community as a way to make

340
00:13:34,590 --> 00:13:32,240
sense of this data also show their own

341
00:13:38,550 --> 00:13:34,600
bias their own prejudice their own

342
00:13:40,550 --> 00:13:38,560
unscientific behavior by excluding parts

343
00:13:42,710 --> 00:13:40,560
of the data that don't fit well with

344
00:13:45,350 --> 00:13:42,720
their hypothesis and of course that's

345
00:13:48,870 --> 00:13:45,360
not a scientific nor objective way to

346
00:13:52,710 --> 00:13:48,880
proceed whenever absurdity raises its

347
00:13:55,430 --> 00:13:52,720
ugly head ufologists will just delete

348
00:13:57,670 --> 00:13:55,440
those aspects of the data and try and

349
00:14:00,069 --> 00:13:57,680
only put forward the elements that fit

350
00:14:02,470 --> 00:14:00,079
well with the idea that these are space

351
00:14:05,030 --> 00:14:02,480
aliens traveling in spacecraft

352
00:14:06,949 --> 00:14:05,040
across the vast expanse of interstellar

353
00:14:09,590 --> 00:14:06,959
space

354
00:14:11,430 --> 00:14:09,600
alright getting back to the paper quote

355
00:14:14,389 --> 00:14:11,440
in the view of the authors current

356
00:14:16,870 --> 00:14:14,399
hypotheses are not strange enough to

357
00:14:18,710 --> 00:14:16,880
explain the facts of the phenomenon and

358
00:14:20,710 --> 00:14:18,720
the debate suffers from a lack of

359
00:14:22,629 --> 00:14:20,720
scientific information

360
00:14:25,110 --> 00:14:22,639
indeed from the viewpoint of modern

361
00:14:28,470 --> 00:14:25,120
physics our cosmic neighborhood could

362
00:14:30,790 --> 00:14:28,480
encompass other parallel universes extra

363
00:14:32,790 --> 00:14:30,800
spatial dimensions and other time-like

364
00:14:36,069 --> 00:14:32,800
dimensions beyond the common

365
00:14:38,629 --> 00:14:36,079
four-dimensional space-time we recognize

366
00:14:40,829 --> 00:14:38,639
and such aspects could lead to rational

367
00:14:43,350 --> 00:14:40,839
explanations for apparently

368
00:14:45,910 --> 00:14:43,360
incomprehensible behaviors on the part

369
00:14:47,189 --> 00:14:45,920
of entities emerging into our perceived

370
00:14:49,189 --> 00:14:47,199
continuum

371
00:14:50,870 --> 00:14:49,199
as it attempts to reconcile theory with

372
00:14:53,030 --> 00:14:50,880
observed properties of elementary

373
00:14:55,110 --> 00:14:53,040
particles and with discoveries at the

374
00:14:57,509 --> 00:14:55,120
frontiers of cosmology

375
00:14:59,910 --> 00:14:57,519
modern physics suggests that mankind has

376
00:15:03,269 --> 00:14:59,920
not yet discovered all of the universe's

377
00:15:05,430 --> 00:15:03,279
facets and we must propose new theories

378
00:15:07,750 --> 00:15:05,440
and experiments in order to explore

379
00:15:10,550 --> 00:15:07,760
these undiscovered facets

380
00:15:13,750 --> 00:15:10,560
this is why continuing study of reported

381
00:15:16,470 --> 00:15:13,760
anomalous events is important it may

382
00:15:20,470 --> 00:15:16,480
provide us with an existence theorem for

383
00:15:22,470 --> 00:15:20,480
new models of physical reality unquote

384
00:15:25,350 --> 00:15:22,480
and by the way that last sentence is

385
00:15:27,910 --> 00:15:25,360
highlighted it's in boldface and italics

386
00:15:30,389 --> 00:15:27,920
in the paper and again i couldn't agree

387
00:15:33,269 --> 00:15:30,399
more when i think back on my study of

388
00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:33,279
this phenomenon that's where i land that

389
00:15:38,949 --> 00:15:36,000
we must reconsider our very model of

390
00:15:40,629 --> 00:15:38,959
reality that this data is providing a

391
00:15:43,030 --> 00:15:40,639
unique opportunity

392
00:15:46,629 --> 00:15:43,040
in some ways unlike any other body of

393
00:15:48,949 --> 00:15:46,639
data in the world to posit new ways of

394
00:15:51,990 --> 00:15:48,959
thinking about all that is what is the

395
00:15:53,430 --> 00:15:52,000
ultimate fabric of reality

396
00:15:55,509 --> 00:15:53,440
and valley and davis were saying the

397
00:15:58,790 --> 00:15:55,519
very same thing this should be seen as

398
00:16:01,030 --> 00:15:58,800
an opportunity a gift and yet because of

399
00:16:03,269 --> 00:16:01,040
prejudice both by ufologists and the

400
00:16:05,910 --> 00:16:03,279
scientific mainstream it's largely

401
00:16:08,389 --> 00:16:05,920
either ignored or pigeonholed into a

402
00:16:11,269 --> 00:16:08,399
pre-existing hypothesis like the

403
00:16:13,829 --> 00:16:11,279
extraterrestrial hypothesis

404
00:16:16,310 --> 00:16:13,839
and also what valet and davis are saying

405
00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:16,320
in that section we just read from is

406
00:16:20,470 --> 00:16:18,720
that the cutting edge notions coming out

407
00:16:22,710 --> 00:16:20,480
of quantum physics and coming out of

408
00:16:23,829 --> 00:16:22,720
cosmology suggests that there could

409
00:16:26,710 --> 00:16:23,839
actually be

410
00:16:29,269 --> 00:16:26,720
means by which real things are happening

411
00:16:30,949 --> 00:16:29,279
that would look absurd but actually are

412
00:16:32,949 --> 00:16:30,959
not once you understand it from the

413
00:16:35,430 --> 00:16:32,959
right perspective so again this

414
00:16:38,870 --> 00:16:35,440
highlights all the more why it is so

415
00:16:41,670 --> 00:16:38,880
illogical irrational and unscientific to

416
00:16:45,189 --> 00:16:41,680
dismiss this data from the get-go really

417
00:16:46,870 --> 00:16:45,199
because it looks absurd at first blush

418
00:16:48,870 --> 00:16:46,880
all right now i'd like to jump back into

419
00:16:51,350 --> 00:16:48,880
the paper moving forward to a section

420
00:16:54,389 --> 00:16:51,360
where they discuss in more detail this

421
00:16:56,949 --> 00:16:54,399
anthropocentric bias in both seti and

422
00:16:59,509 --> 00:16:56,959
the uap paradigms

423
00:17:02,150 --> 00:16:59,519
quoting again from this paper quote the

424
00:17:04,309 --> 00:17:02,160
anthropocentric biases in the seti

425
00:17:05,909 --> 00:17:04,319
program are evident in the present

426
00:17:07,669 --> 00:17:05,919
search paradigm

427
00:17:09,350 --> 00:17:07,679
historically the founders of seti

428
00:17:11,590 --> 00:17:09,360
defined the search paradigm from a

429
00:17:13,590 --> 00:17:11,600
series of complex arguments and

430
00:17:16,829 --> 00:17:13,600
assumptions that led to the creation of

431
00:17:18,710 --> 00:17:16,839
a seti orthodox view of interstellar

432
00:17:21,270 --> 00:17:18,720
communication while applying the

433
00:17:24,470 --> 00:17:21,280
assumption of mediocrity to our known

434
00:17:26,470 --> 00:17:24,480
present technological capabilities

435
00:17:29,110 --> 00:17:26,480
this approach was predicated on the

436
00:17:31,909 --> 00:17:29,120
notion that it was economically cheaper

437
00:17:34,310 --> 00:17:31,919
and technologically easier to generate

438
00:17:36,390 --> 00:17:34,320
and receive radio wave photons for

439
00:17:38,950 --> 00:17:36,400
interstellar signaling rather than

440
00:17:40,710 --> 00:17:38,960
engage manner interstellar travel or

441
00:17:42,390 --> 00:17:40,720
robotic probes

442
00:17:44,310 --> 00:17:42,400
indeed the latter was considered

443
00:17:48,150 --> 00:17:44,320
economically and technologically

444
00:17:50,390 --> 00:17:48,160
improbable within the seti orthodox view

445
00:17:53,110 --> 00:17:50,400
this has led to four decades of the seti

446
00:17:56,310 --> 00:17:53,120
program following a dominantly radio

447
00:17:57,990 --> 00:17:56,320
microwave oriented search scheme

448
00:18:00,070 --> 00:17:58,000
given the failure of this initial

449
00:18:02,230 --> 00:18:00,080
approach in the last two decades

450
00:18:03,669 --> 00:18:02,240
alternative seti programs have been

451
00:18:06,710 --> 00:18:03,679
proposed

452
00:18:09,029 --> 00:18:06,720
they exploit coherent laser optical

453
00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:09,039
holographic signals and worldwide web

454
00:18:15,669 --> 00:18:11,600
detection schemes as well as ideas to

455
00:18:18,630 --> 00:18:15,679
search for eti artifacts ceta or astro

456
00:18:21,110 --> 00:18:18,640
archaeology and visiting probes in the

457
00:18:23,190 --> 00:18:21,120
solar system or on earth

458
00:18:25,830 --> 00:18:23,200
there are new proposed search schemes

459
00:18:28,150 --> 00:18:25,840
based on the application of high energy

460
00:18:31,510 --> 00:18:28,160
physics detection such as modulated

461
00:18:33,750 --> 00:18:31,520
neutrino beams x-rays gamma rays and

462
00:18:35,510 --> 00:18:33,760
cosmic rays etc

463
00:18:37,590 --> 00:18:35,520
other search schemes proposed looking

464
00:18:40,230 --> 00:18:37,600
for artificially generated excess

465
00:18:42,710 --> 00:18:40,240
radiation emissions from astronomical

466
00:18:45,590 --> 00:18:42,720
bodies in space or for high energy

467
00:18:47,750 --> 00:18:45,600
radiation starship exhaust trails

468
00:18:50,230 --> 00:18:47,760
unquote now the bottom line in that

469
00:18:53,270 --> 00:18:50,240
entire section is that the seti program

470
00:18:54,789 --> 00:18:53,280
has focused largely on radio signals

471
00:18:56,870 --> 00:18:54,799
which was the technology that was

472
00:18:59,270 --> 00:18:56,880
cutting edge for the earth again

473
00:19:01,669 --> 00:18:59,280
speaking of anthropocentric bias and

474
00:19:04,470 --> 00:19:01,679
bias to a particular period of time

475
00:19:07,270 --> 00:19:04,480
that was a key aspect of our technology

476
00:19:09,830 --> 00:19:07,280
in the 1960s and 70s

477
00:19:12,310 --> 00:19:09,840
by the time you got to the 80s 90s and

478
00:19:14,310 --> 00:19:12,320
the turn of the millennium radio signals

479
00:19:16,549 --> 00:19:14,320
seemed like an antiquated way to try and

480
00:19:18,789 --> 00:19:16,559
pick up evidence of extraterrestrial

481
00:19:20,549 --> 00:19:18,799
civilizations and yet that's largely

482
00:19:22,310 --> 00:19:20,559
been the paradigm

483
00:19:23,270 --> 00:19:22,320
now getting back to the paper again

484
00:19:25,510 --> 00:19:23,280
quote

485
00:19:28,390 --> 00:19:25,520
these new programs have been at odds

486
00:19:31,190 --> 00:19:28,400
with members of the dominant rmw seti

487
00:19:33,590 --> 00:19:31,200
program possibly because of concern over

488
00:19:37,270 --> 00:19:33,600
having to share scarce resources or

489
00:19:39,350 --> 00:19:37,280
compete with other non-rmw programs for

490
00:19:42,470 --> 00:19:39,360
the very limited private funding

491
00:19:44,310 --> 00:19:42,480
available for overall city research

492
00:19:46,230 --> 00:19:44,320
unquote and the bottom line there is

493
00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:46,240
that while there are different ideas

494
00:19:50,310 --> 00:19:47,760
there's actually relatively little

495
00:19:52,630 --> 00:19:50,320
funding to actually look into this and

496
00:19:54,710 --> 00:19:52,640
so that creates even more aggravation

497
00:19:56,870 --> 00:19:54,720
amongst many groups in terms of what is

498
00:19:58,390 --> 00:19:56,880
the right way to move forward and so we

499
00:19:59,909 --> 00:19:58,400
tend to stick with what we've been doing

500
00:20:02,230 --> 00:19:59,919
all along

501
00:20:05,270 --> 00:20:02,240
okay now they're going to focus their

502
00:20:07,510 --> 00:20:05,280
critique again on uap researchers

503
00:20:10,549 --> 00:20:07,520
quoting again from the paper quote

504
00:20:13,110 --> 00:20:10,559
the community of uap researchers is also

505
00:20:15,669 --> 00:20:13,120
driven by its own orthodoxy which is

506
00:20:19,270 --> 00:20:15,679
only violated at great personal risk to

507
00:20:22,470 --> 00:20:19,280
the critic who proposes a deviant view

508
00:20:24,310 --> 00:20:22,480
and by its own principle of mediocrity

509
00:20:26,390 --> 00:20:24,320
when attempting to categorize and

510
00:20:27,669 --> 00:20:26,400
hypothesize explanations for the

511
00:20:29,510 --> 00:20:27,679
phenomenon

512
00:20:31,190 --> 00:20:29,520
for this reason we prefer to use the

513
00:20:33,990 --> 00:20:31,200
term uap

514
00:20:36,070 --> 00:20:34,000
rather than the more common ufo which is

515
00:20:38,390 --> 00:20:36,080
immediately associated with the idea of

516
00:20:39,750 --> 00:20:38,400
space visitors in the mind of the public

517
00:20:41,909 --> 00:20:39,760
and media

518
00:20:44,870 --> 00:20:41,919
yet a bridge could be formed between the

519
00:20:47,350 --> 00:20:44,880
disparate seti and ufology communities

520
00:20:48,630 --> 00:20:47,360
if both would only recognize a simple

521
00:20:51,029 --> 00:20:48,640
fact

522
00:20:53,669 --> 00:20:51,039
no experiment can distinguish between

523
00:20:57,430 --> 00:20:53,679
phenomena manifested by visiting

524
00:21:00,230 --> 00:20:57,440
interstellar arbitrarily advanced eti

525
00:21:03,190 --> 00:21:00,240
and intelligent entities that may exist

526
00:21:05,830 --> 00:21:03,200
near earth within a parallel universe or

527
00:21:09,830 --> 00:21:05,840
in different dimensions or who are

528
00:21:11,669 --> 00:21:09,840
terrestrial time travelers unquote

529
00:21:13,909 --> 00:21:11,679
and this is a really key section again

530
00:21:17,430 --> 00:21:13,919
in the paper itself this is highlighted

531
00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:17,440
in bold text and it's italicized let's

532
00:21:22,390 --> 00:21:19,600
focus on this for a second

533
00:21:24,789 --> 00:21:22,400
what they're saying is interestingly at

534
00:21:26,470 --> 00:21:24,799
present there's no experiment we can

535
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:26,480
think up that would be able to

536
00:21:33,110 --> 00:21:29,520
distinguish between phenomena that could

537
00:21:35,830 --> 00:21:33,120
be either visiting interstellar groups

538
00:21:38,149 --> 00:21:35,840
eti or intelligent entities that may

539
00:21:41,029 --> 00:21:38,159
exist near earth but within a parallel

540
00:21:43,430 --> 00:21:41,039
universe or in a different dimension

541
00:21:45,350 --> 00:21:43,440
or who happen to be terrestrial time

542
00:21:48,070 --> 00:21:45,360
travelers in other words us from the

543
00:21:49,990 --> 00:21:48,080
future perhaps so that's a key point

544
00:21:52,789 --> 00:21:50,000
they're saying that based on our current

545
00:21:54,789 --> 00:21:52,799
way of examining evidence any of those

546
00:21:57,029 --> 00:21:54,799
hypotheses could actually fit it would

547
00:21:59,430 --> 00:21:57,039
be very difficult based on the data we

548
00:22:00,950 --> 00:21:59,440
have to know which one it is

549
00:22:02,789 --> 00:22:00,960
and of course we should always consider

550
00:22:04,710 --> 00:22:02,799
the possibility that it might be more

551
00:22:06,710 --> 00:22:04,720
than one of those and again that's

552
00:22:09,590 --> 00:22:06,720
partly what makes this topic so

553
00:22:11,430 --> 00:22:09,600
fascinating but also so daunting to try

554
00:22:13,029 --> 00:22:11,440
to make sense of

555
00:22:15,590 --> 00:22:13,039
and of course part of the point that

556
00:22:17,270 --> 00:22:15,600
valet and davis are making is that any

557
00:22:19,750 --> 00:22:17,280
of the groups proposing a certain

558
00:22:21,750 --> 00:22:19,760
hypothesis should demonstrate a certain

559
00:22:24,390 --> 00:22:21,760
humility because our current

560
00:22:26,230 --> 00:22:24,400
experimental paradigm can't distinguish

561
00:22:29,430 --> 00:22:26,240
which one of those possibilities it

562
00:22:32,230 --> 00:22:29,440
could be it could be any or all or some

563
00:22:35,350 --> 00:22:32,240
of them and so we should keep humility

564
00:22:37,909 --> 00:22:35,360
front and center as we proceed

565
00:22:40,070 --> 00:22:37,919
alright back to the paper quote

566
00:22:42,950 --> 00:22:40,080
each of these interesting possibilities

567
00:22:45,350 --> 00:22:42,960
can be manifested via the application of

568
00:22:47,830 --> 00:22:45,360
the physical principle of traversable

569
00:22:49,190 --> 00:22:47,840
wormholes since they theoretically

570
00:22:51,669 --> 00:22:49,200
connect between

571
00:22:55,029 --> 00:22:51,679
two different universes two remote space

572
00:22:57,029 --> 00:22:55,039
locations different times and dimensions

573
00:22:59,830 --> 00:22:57,039
traversable wormholes are but one

574
00:23:02,149 --> 00:22:59,840
example of new physical tools that are

575
00:23:04,710 --> 00:23:02,159
available for consideration of

576
00:23:08,070 --> 00:23:04,720
inter-universal interstellar

577
00:23:09,510 --> 00:23:08,080
interdimensional or chronological travel

578
00:23:11,029 --> 00:23:09,520
unquote

579
00:23:12,789 --> 00:23:11,039
so the point that's being made there

580
00:23:14,710 --> 00:23:12,799
again is very interesting and we should

581
00:23:16,710 --> 00:23:14,720
pay attention they're saying that

582
00:23:18,470 --> 00:23:16,720
traversable wormholes which are believed

583
00:23:20,070 --> 00:23:18,480
to be a real thing this is part of

584
00:23:21,909 --> 00:23:20,080
modern day physics

585
00:23:24,390 --> 00:23:21,919
could be responsible for a kind of

586
00:23:27,510 --> 00:23:24,400
travel from any of those different

587
00:23:29,909 --> 00:23:27,520
hypotheses again they said here two

588
00:23:33,590 --> 00:23:29,919
different universes two remote space

589
00:23:35,669 --> 00:23:33,600
locations different times and dimensions

590
00:23:38,070 --> 00:23:35,679
so any of the hypotheses we've talked

591
00:23:39,990 --> 00:23:38,080
about whether it's future time travelers

592
00:23:42,149 --> 00:23:40,000
whether it's interdimensional or whether

593
00:23:44,310 --> 00:23:42,159
it's extraterrestrial

594
00:23:46,950 --> 00:23:44,320
wormholes could be used as a means of

595
00:23:48,789 --> 00:23:46,960
travel for each of those

596
00:23:51,669 --> 00:23:48,799
all right now returning to the paper we

597
00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:51,679
now move to a section titled uap the

598
00:23:56,789 --> 00:23:54,320
need for a unified approach

599
00:23:59,269 --> 00:23:56,799
quote what we present here is a new

600
00:24:01,830 --> 00:23:59,279
framework for uap analysis that takes

601
00:24:03,750 --> 00:24:01,840
into account the lessons from seti in

602
00:24:06,390 --> 00:24:03,760
any scientific question it must be

603
00:24:09,269 --> 00:24:06,400
possible to ascertain to what extent a

604
00:24:10,230 --> 00:24:09,279
hypothesis when tested and proven to be

605
00:24:13,029 --> 00:24:10,240
true

606
00:24:15,990 --> 00:24:13,039
actually explains the observed facts

607
00:24:18,789 --> 00:24:16,000
in the case of uap however as in physics

608
00:24:20,950 --> 00:24:18,799
generally a hypothesis may well be

609
00:24:24,149 --> 00:24:20,960
proven true while an apparently

610
00:24:25,029 --> 00:24:24,159
contradictory hypothesis is also proven

611
00:24:27,350 --> 00:24:25,039
true

612
00:24:29,990 --> 00:24:27,360
thus the hypothesis that the phenomenon

613
00:24:32,149 --> 00:24:30,000
of light is caused by particles is true

614
00:24:34,630 --> 00:24:32,159
but so is the opposite hypothesis that

615
00:24:36,549 --> 00:24:34,640
it is caused by waves we must be

616
00:24:38,470 --> 00:24:36,559
prepared for the time when we will be in

617
00:24:42,149 --> 00:24:38,480
a position to formulate scientific

618
00:24:44,549 --> 00:24:42,159
hypotheses for uap and then we may face

619
00:24:46,549 --> 00:24:44,559
a similar situation

620
00:24:48,870 --> 00:24:46,559
the framework we present here is based

621
00:24:51,669 --> 00:24:48,880
on such an apparent contradiction

622
00:24:54,950 --> 00:24:51,679
because we will argue that uap can be

623
00:24:56,070 --> 00:24:54,960
thought of both as physical and as

624
00:24:58,149 --> 00:24:56,080
psychic

625
00:25:00,549 --> 00:24:58,159
we hope that it will prove stimulating

626
00:25:03,269 --> 00:25:00,559
as a unified approach to a puzzling

627
00:25:05,269 --> 00:25:03,279
phenomenon that presents both undeniable

628
00:25:08,070 --> 00:25:05,279
physical effects suggesting a

629
00:25:11,110 --> 00:25:08,080
technological device or craft

630
00:25:13,269 --> 00:25:11,120
and psychic effects reminiscent of the

631
00:25:15,350 --> 00:25:13,279
literature on poltergeists and

632
00:25:17,350 --> 00:25:15,360
psychokinetic phenomena

633
00:25:19,510 --> 00:25:17,360
here we use the word psychic in the

634
00:25:22,549 --> 00:25:19,520
sense of an interaction between physical

635
00:25:24,950 --> 00:25:22,559
reality and human consciousness

636
00:25:27,190 --> 00:25:24,960
as one example among many it will be

637
00:25:30,230 --> 00:25:27,200
recalled that the events at fatima

638
00:25:31,750 --> 00:25:30,240
involved luminous phenomena atmospheric

639
00:25:34,070 --> 00:25:31,760
and thermal effects

640
00:25:37,750 --> 00:25:34,080
and descriptions of an apparent metallic

641
00:25:40,549 --> 00:25:37,760
disc in the sky while many of the 70

642
00:25:43,669 --> 00:25:40,559
thousand witnesses also experienced

643
00:25:46,149 --> 00:25:43,679
spiritual and psychological effects

644
00:25:49,110 --> 00:25:46,159
the main precipients reported psychic

645
00:25:51,190 --> 00:25:49,120
states conductive to a form of

646
00:25:54,149 --> 00:25:51,200
extrasensory communication with a

647
00:25:57,510 --> 00:25:54,159
non-human entity assumed to be the

648
00:26:00,230 --> 00:25:57,520
virgin mary the feeling of absurdity and

649
00:26:02,870 --> 00:26:00,240
contradiction in these two aspects is

650
00:26:04,710 --> 00:26:02,880
not worse than scientific puzzlement

651
00:26:07,110 --> 00:26:04,720
during the particle wave or more

652
00:26:10,149 --> 00:26:07,120
recently quantum entanglement and

653
00:26:11,830 --> 00:26:10,159
multidimensional transport controversies

654
00:26:14,390 --> 00:26:11,840
the contradiction has to do with the

655
00:26:16,950 --> 00:26:14,400
inadequacy of our language to grasp a

656
00:26:18,710 --> 00:26:16,960
phenomenon that defies our attempts at

657
00:26:20,149 --> 00:26:18,720
classification

658
00:26:21,909 --> 00:26:20,159
unquote

659
00:26:25,110 --> 00:26:21,919
again a key section what they're

660
00:26:27,430 --> 00:26:25,120
pointing to is that the revelations from

661
00:26:30,470 --> 00:26:27,440
quantum experiments to do with particles

662
00:26:33,029 --> 00:26:30,480
and waves and quantum entanglement etc

663
00:26:35,269 --> 00:26:33,039
non-locality all of these have been very

664
00:26:37,510 --> 00:26:35,279
puzzling to the scientific community

665
00:26:39,269 --> 00:26:37,520
they look almost contradictory in terms

666
00:26:42,310 --> 00:26:39,279
of the data that arises from these

667
00:26:44,549 --> 00:26:42,320
experiments and so what davis and valley

668
00:26:47,110 --> 00:26:44,559
are saying is that in the same way we

669
00:26:49,269 --> 00:26:47,120
should approach the ufo phenomenon we

670
00:26:51,269 --> 00:26:49,279
should try and think outside of the box

671
00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:51,279
and realize that ultimately this is no

672
00:26:54,390 --> 00:26:52,480
more challenging

673
00:26:56,950 --> 00:26:54,400
than some of the same challenges we're

674
00:26:58,390 --> 00:26:56,960
facing in physics

675
00:27:01,350 --> 00:26:58,400
all right now we're going to move to a

676
00:27:02,789 --> 00:27:01,360
section they call the six levels of uap

677
00:27:05,990 --> 00:27:02,799
analysis

678
00:27:08,710 --> 00:27:06,000
the first one layer one is quote first

679
00:27:10,710 --> 00:27:08,720
of all is the physical layer evident in

680
00:27:11,990 --> 00:27:10,720
most witness accounts describing an

681
00:27:14,390 --> 00:27:12,000
object that

682
00:27:15,750 --> 00:27:14,400
occupies a position in space consistent

683
00:27:17,909 --> 00:27:15,760
with geometry

684
00:27:19,430 --> 00:27:17,919
moves as time passes

685
00:27:20,870 --> 00:27:19,440
interacts with the environment through

686
00:27:23,269 --> 00:27:20,880
thermal effects

687
00:27:25,430 --> 00:27:23,279
exhibits light absorption and emission

688
00:27:28,470 --> 00:27:25,440
from which power output estimates can be

689
00:27:31,029 --> 00:27:28,480
derived produces turbulence

690
00:27:33,669 --> 00:27:31,039
when landed leaves indentations and

691
00:27:35,430 --> 00:27:33,679
burns from which mass and energy figures

692
00:27:37,909 --> 00:27:35,440
can be derived

693
00:27:40,230 --> 00:27:37,919
gives rise to photographic images

694
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:40,240
leaves material residue consistent with

695
00:27:44,310 --> 00:27:41,840
earth chemistry

696
00:27:46,630 --> 00:27:44,320
and gives rise to electric magnetic and

697
00:27:48,149 --> 00:27:46,640
gravitational disturbances

698
00:27:51,110 --> 00:27:48,159
so they're saying that's the physical

699
00:27:54,310 --> 00:27:51,120
layer these are ways that these objects

700
00:27:56,470 --> 00:27:54,320
manifest in our consensus reality and

701
00:27:59,269 --> 00:27:56,480
can be measured in terms of their

702
00:28:02,070 --> 00:27:59,279
physical effect on the planet on the

703
00:28:05,110 --> 00:28:02,080
atmosphere etc

704
00:28:06,310 --> 00:28:05,120
layer two they call anti-physical very

705
00:28:07,110 --> 00:28:06,320
interesting

706
00:28:09,669 --> 00:28:07,120
quote

707
00:28:11,350 --> 00:28:09,679
layer two for lack of an adequate term

708
00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:11,360
we will call the second layer

709
00:28:16,310 --> 00:28:14,080
anti-physical the variables are the same

710
00:28:18,389 --> 00:28:16,320
as those in the previous category but

711
00:28:21,350 --> 00:28:18,399
they form patterns that conflict with

712
00:28:23,669 --> 00:28:21,360
those predicted by modern physics

713
00:28:26,710 --> 00:28:23,679
objects are described as physical and

714
00:28:29,269 --> 00:28:26,720
material but they are also described as

715
00:28:32,870 --> 00:28:29,279
sinking into the ground shrinking in

716
00:28:34,310 --> 00:28:32,880
size growing larger or changing shape on

717
00:28:36,950 --> 00:28:34,320
the spot

718
00:28:37,990 --> 00:28:36,960
becoming fuzzy and transparent on the

719
00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:38,000
spot

720
00:28:42,310 --> 00:28:40,080
dividing into two or more objects

721
00:28:45,510 --> 00:28:42,320
several of them merging into one object

722
00:28:48,470 --> 00:28:45,520
at slow speed disappearing at one point

723
00:28:51,350 --> 00:28:48,480
and appearing elsewhere instantaneously

724
00:28:53,510 --> 00:28:51,360
remaining observable visually while not

725
00:28:56,950 --> 00:28:53,520
detected by radar

726
00:28:59,590 --> 00:28:56,960
producing missing time or time dilation

727
00:29:00,789 --> 00:28:59,600
producing topological inversion or space

728
00:29:02,789 --> 00:29:00,799
dilation

729
00:29:05,430 --> 00:29:02,799
object was estimated to be of small

730
00:29:08,230 --> 00:29:05,440
exterior size and volume but witnesses

731
00:29:10,310 --> 00:29:08,240
saw a huge interior many times the

732
00:29:12,470 --> 00:29:10,320
exterior size

733
00:29:15,110 --> 00:29:12,480
and appearing as balls of colored

734
00:29:16,310 --> 00:29:15,120
intensely bright light under intelligent

735
00:29:18,230 --> 00:29:16,320
control

736
00:29:21,029 --> 00:29:18,240
it is the presence of such descriptions

737
00:29:23,909 --> 00:29:21,039
that leads most academic scientists to

738
00:29:26,549 --> 00:29:23,919
reject the phenomenon as the product of

739
00:29:28,230 --> 00:29:26,559
hallucinations or hoaxes

740
00:29:30,870 --> 00:29:28,240
unquote so again what they're saying

741
00:29:32,789 --> 00:29:30,880
there is that because these supposed

742
00:29:35,350 --> 00:29:32,799
anti-physical effects these things that

743
00:29:37,830 --> 00:29:35,360
supposedly can't happen based on our

744
00:29:40,389 --> 00:29:37,840
understanding of physics right now

745
00:29:42,630 --> 00:29:40,399
many of the mainstream simply reject the

746
00:29:43,830 --> 00:29:42,640
data altogether and will not investigate

747
00:29:46,310 --> 00:29:43,840
it

748
00:29:47,190 --> 00:29:46,320
moving on to layer three

749
00:29:49,590 --> 00:29:47,200
quote

750
00:29:51,990 --> 00:29:49,600
layer three the third layer has to do

751
00:29:54,630 --> 00:29:52,000
with the psychology of the witnesses and

752
00:29:57,510 --> 00:29:54,640
the social conditions that surround them

753
00:29:59,269 --> 00:29:57,520
human observers tend to see uap while in

754
00:30:01,830 --> 00:29:59,279
their normal environment and in normal

755
00:30:03,750 --> 00:30:01,840
social groups they perceive the objects

756
00:30:06,630 --> 00:30:03,760
as non-conventional but they try to

757
00:30:08,549 --> 00:30:06,640
explain them away as common occurrences

758
00:30:11,590 --> 00:30:08,559
until faced with the inescapable

759
00:30:13,590 --> 00:30:11,600
conclusion that the object is truly

760
00:30:17,110 --> 00:30:13,600
unknown

761
00:30:19,590 --> 00:30:17,120
all right layer four quote layer four

762
00:30:21,830 --> 00:30:19,600
physiological reactions are another

763
00:30:23,990 --> 00:30:21,840
significant level of information the

764
00:30:26,310 --> 00:30:24,000
phenomenon is reported to cause effects

765
00:30:29,430 --> 00:30:26,320
perceived by humans as

766
00:30:33,110 --> 00:30:29,440
sounds beeping buzzing humming sharp

767
00:30:35,750 --> 00:30:33,120
piercing whistling swooshing air rushing

768
00:30:37,029 --> 00:30:35,760
loud deafening roaring sound of a storm

769
00:30:38,710 --> 00:30:37,039
etc

770
00:30:40,070 --> 00:30:38,720
vibrations

771
00:30:42,310 --> 00:30:40,080
burns

772
00:30:43,350 --> 00:30:42,320
partial paralysis inability to move

773
00:30:46,389 --> 00:30:43,360
muscles

774
00:30:48,789 --> 00:30:46,399
extreme heat or cold sensation

775
00:30:52,230 --> 00:30:48,799
odors powerful sweet or strange

776
00:30:54,310 --> 00:30:52,240
fragrance rotten eggs sulfurous pungent

777
00:30:56,870 --> 00:30:54,320
musky etc

778
00:30:58,789 --> 00:30:56,880
metallic taste pricklings

779
00:31:00,870 --> 00:30:58,799
temporary blindness when directly

780
00:31:02,070 --> 00:31:00,880
exposed to the object's light

781
00:31:05,509 --> 00:31:02,080
nausea

782
00:31:07,269 --> 00:31:05,519
bloody nose and or ears severe headache

783
00:31:08,950 --> 00:31:07,279
difficulty in breathing

784
00:31:11,269 --> 00:31:08,960
loss of volition

785
00:31:13,590 --> 00:31:11,279
severe drowsiness in the days following

786
00:31:16,389 --> 00:31:13,600
a close encounter

787
00:31:19,029 --> 00:31:16,399
layer five the fifth category of effects

788
00:31:21,509 --> 00:31:19,039
can only be labeled psychic because it

789
00:31:23,149 --> 00:31:21,519
involves a class of phenomena commonly

790
00:31:26,070 --> 00:31:23,159
found in the literature of

791
00:31:28,470 --> 00:31:26,080
parapsychology such as

792
00:31:30,870 --> 00:31:28,480
impressions of communication without a

793
00:31:33,430 --> 00:31:30,880
direct sensory channel

794
00:31:35,590 --> 00:31:33,440
poltergeist phenomena motions and sounds

795
00:31:38,789 --> 00:31:35,600
without a specific cause

796
00:31:41,350 --> 00:31:38,799
outside the observed presence of a uap

797
00:31:43,669 --> 00:31:41,360
levitation of the witness or of objects

798
00:31:45,830 --> 00:31:43,679
and animals in the vicinity

799
00:31:48,710 --> 00:31:45,840
maneuvers of a uap appearing to

800
00:31:51,750 --> 00:31:48,720
anticipate the witnesses thoughts

801
00:31:54,310 --> 00:31:51,760
premonitory dreams or visions

802
00:31:56,389 --> 00:31:54,320
personality changes promoting unusual

803
00:31:57,750 --> 00:31:56,399
abilities in the witness

804
00:32:00,710 --> 00:31:57,760
healing

805
00:32:03,350 --> 00:32:00,720
and finally we have layer six

806
00:32:05,830 --> 00:32:03,360
quote layer six the sixth and last

807
00:32:07,669 --> 00:32:05,840
category could be called cultural it is

808
00:32:09,990 --> 00:32:07,679
concerned with society's reactions to

809
00:32:12,470 --> 00:32:10,000
the reports the way in which secondary

810
00:32:15,029 --> 00:32:12,480
effects hoaxes fiction and science

811
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:15,039
fiction imagery scientific theories

812
00:32:21,750 --> 00:32:18,000
cover-up or exposure media censorship or

813
00:32:24,070 --> 00:32:21,760
publicity sensationalism etc become

814
00:32:26,549 --> 00:32:24,080
generated and the attitude of members of

815
00:32:29,110 --> 00:32:26,559
a given culture towards the concepts

816
00:32:30,230 --> 00:32:29,120
that uap observations appear to

817
00:32:32,470 --> 00:32:30,240
challenge

818
00:32:34,870 --> 00:32:32,480
in the united states the greatest impact

819
00:32:37,669 --> 00:32:34,880
of the phenomenon has been on general

820
00:32:39,590 --> 00:32:37,679
acceptance of the idea of life in space

821
00:32:42,470 --> 00:32:39,600
and the more limited but potentially

822
00:32:45,430 --> 00:32:42,480
very significant change in the popular

823
00:32:47,509 --> 00:32:45,440
concept of non-human intelligence

824
00:32:49,509 --> 00:32:47,519
in earlier cultures such as medieval

825
00:32:50,950 --> 00:32:49,519
europe or portugal in the early years of

826
00:32:52,870 --> 00:32:50,960
the 20th century

827
00:32:55,430 --> 00:32:52,880
the cultural context of anomalous

828
00:32:58,549 --> 00:32:55,440
observations was strongly colored by

829
00:33:01,269 --> 00:32:58,559
religious beliefs unquote and that's key

830
00:33:03,269 --> 00:33:01,279
there again the contextual milieu has as

831
00:33:04,230 --> 00:33:03,279
much to do with what we do to make sense

832
00:33:07,509 --> 00:33:04,240
of these

833
00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:07,519
strange anomalous events as the events

834
00:33:12,149 --> 00:33:10,240
themselves so in modern western

835
00:33:14,549 --> 00:33:12,159
civilizations we tend to think of space

836
00:33:16,310 --> 00:33:14,559
visitors but as recently as a century

837
00:33:18,789 --> 00:33:16,320
ago or depending on where you are in the

838
00:33:21,669 --> 00:33:18,799
earth still could be the case they are

839
00:33:24,149 --> 00:33:21,679
interpreted as religious events

840
00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:24,159
so what valley and davis are saying is

841
00:33:28,549 --> 00:33:26,480
that we need to pay attention to all six

842
00:33:30,870 --> 00:33:28,559
levels in order to make sense of this

843
00:33:33,269 --> 00:33:30,880
phenomenon we need to pay attention to

844
00:33:35,750 --> 00:33:33,279
all the ways it is manifesting

845
00:33:38,630 --> 00:33:35,760
and changing our reality and changing

846
00:33:40,789 --> 00:33:38,640
the personalities of the witnesses even

847
00:33:42,950 --> 00:33:40,799
all of that information is important to

848
00:33:44,870 --> 00:33:42,960
try and formulate an overarching

849
00:33:46,630 --> 00:33:44,880
hypothesis

850
00:33:48,230 --> 00:33:46,640
and now i want to jump to the conclusion

851
00:33:50,630 --> 00:33:48,240
that they come to

852
00:33:51,669 --> 00:33:50,640
this is the final section of the paper

853
00:33:53,909 --> 00:33:51,679
quote

854
00:33:56,310 --> 00:33:53,919
modern engineering has made us familiar

855
00:33:58,870 --> 00:33:56,320
with display technologies that produce

856
00:34:01,350 --> 00:33:58,880
three-dimensional images with color

857
00:34:02,549 --> 00:34:01,360
motion and perspective through physical

858
00:34:05,509 --> 00:34:02,559
devices

859
00:34:08,470 --> 00:34:05,519
we speculate that uap are analogous to

860
00:34:10,869 --> 00:34:08,480
these display technologies but utilize a

861
00:34:14,310 --> 00:34:10,879
wider range of variables to operate on

862
00:34:16,950 --> 00:34:14,320
the recipients and through them on human

863
00:34:19,030 --> 00:34:16,960
culture the long time scale and the

864
00:34:21,829 --> 00:34:19,040
global nature of the effects make it

865
00:34:23,669 --> 00:34:21,839
difficult to test hypotheses involving

866
00:34:25,750 --> 00:34:23,679
such cultural effects

867
00:34:27,829 --> 00:34:25,760
unquote i want to jump out for a second

868
00:34:29,990 --> 00:34:27,839
there and again highlight this section

869
00:34:33,109 --> 00:34:30,000
because it's talking about the ultimate

870
00:34:36,389 --> 00:34:33,119
aim is perhaps to change human culture

871
00:34:38,389 --> 00:34:36,399
to modify and cultivate human

872
00:34:41,030 --> 00:34:38,399
civilization that's basically what's

873
00:34:43,990 --> 00:34:41,040
being discussed here this again touches

874
00:34:45,750 --> 00:34:44,000
on valais control system hypothesis to

875
00:34:48,149 --> 00:34:45,760
some degree

876
00:34:50,389 --> 00:34:48,159
getting back to this final section quote

877
00:34:52,470 --> 00:34:50,399
science fiction has familiarized us with

878
00:34:54,869 --> 00:34:52,480
the concept of machines or beings

879
00:34:57,829 --> 00:34:54,879
projecting an image of themselves that

880
00:35:00,230 --> 00:34:57,839
systematically confuses observers

881
00:35:02,870 --> 00:35:00,240
one could imagine that uap represent

882
00:35:04,790 --> 00:35:02,880
physical craft equipped with the means

883
00:35:07,109 --> 00:35:04,800
to interact both with the surrounding

884
00:35:10,150 --> 00:35:07,119
atmosphere and with the senses of

885
00:35:13,030 --> 00:35:10,160
observers in such a way as to convey a

886
00:35:14,950 --> 00:35:13,040
false image of their real nature one

887
00:35:17,430 --> 00:35:14,960
could argue that such an object could

888
00:35:19,829 --> 00:35:17,440
use microwave devices to create

889
00:35:21,990 --> 00:35:19,839
perceptual hallucinations in the

890
00:35:24,790 --> 00:35:22,000
witnesses including messages that are

891
00:35:25,750 --> 00:35:24,800
heard or seen by a single individual in

892
00:35:28,630 --> 00:35:25,760
a group

893
00:35:31,030 --> 00:35:28,640
even such a complex scheme however fails

894
00:35:34,150 --> 00:35:31,040
to explain all the reported effects and

895
00:35:36,069 --> 00:35:34,160
the subsequent behavior changes in close

896
00:35:38,390 --> 00:35:36,079
range witnesses

897
00:35:41,109 --> 00:35:38,400
we must assume something more the

898
00:35:43,510 --> 00:35:41,119
triggering of deep-seated processes

899
00:35:45,829 --> 00:35:43,520
within their personality the question

900
00:35:46,950 --> 00:35:45,839
then becomes to what extent are these

901
00:35:49,589 --> 00:35:46,960
effects

902
00:35:50,870 --> 00:35:49,599
evidence of a purposeful action of the

903
00:35:53,430 --> 00:35:50,880
operators

904
00:35:56,870 --> 00:35:53,440
to answer this question and to test more

905
00:36:00,150 --> 00:35:56,880
fully the hypothesis that uap phenomena

906
00:36:02,870 --> 00:36:00,160
are both physical and psychic in nature

907
00:36:05,349 --> 00:36:02,880
we need much better investigations a

908
00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:05,359
greater upgrading of data quality and a

909
00:36:10,310 --> 00:36:07,760
more informed analysis not only of the

910
00:36:13,030 --> 00:36:10,320
object being described but of the impact

911
00:36:14,870 --> 00:36:13,040
of the observation on the witnesses and

912
00:36:16,630 --> 00:36:14,880
their social environment

913
00:36:19,270 --> 00:36:16,640
in other words we need to develop a

914
00:36:21,750 --> 00:36:19,280
multi-disciplinary methodology that

915
00:36:24,310 --> 00:36:21,760
encompasses all six of the layers we

916
00:36:27,430 --> 00:36:24,320
have identified and can be applied to

917
00:36:29,589 --> 00:36:27,440
seti as well as to ufo phenomena and

918
00:36:31,829 --> 00:36:29,599
close encounters with the entities

919
00:36:34,470 --> 00:36:31,839
associated with them

920
00:36:37,589 --> 00:36:34,480
such a methodology would open the way to

921
00:36:39,750 --> 00:36:37,599
the rational testing of hypotheses in an

922
00:36:43,030 --> 00:36:39,760
important domain that has been sorely

923
00:36:43,990 --> 00:36:43,040
neglected by mainstream science for too

924
00:36:45,750 --> 00:36:44,000
long

925
00:36:48,230 --> 00:36:45,760
unquote

926
00:36:50,630 --> 00:36:48,240
so there you have it an excellent paper

927
00:36:51,990 --> 00:36:50,640
an excellent contribution and important

928
00:36:54,710 --> 00:36:52,000
contribution

929
00:36:57,349 --> 00:36:54,720
to the study of the ufo phenomenon and

930
00:37:00,310 --> 00:36:57,359
this is in some ways both a plea to the

931
00:37:03,990 --> 00:37:00,320
scientific establishment to get involved

932
00:37:06,790 --> 00:37:04,000
to apply curiosity and cutting-edge

933
00:37:09,109 --> 00:37:06,800
technology and outside-the-box thinking

934
00:37:12,470 --> 00:37:09,119
in order to tackle what should be

935
00:37:14,710 --> 00:37:12,480
a topic of the most extreme interest to

936
00:37:17,349 --> 00:37:14,720
the scientific community at least that's

937
00:37:20,150 --> 00:37:17,359
the perspective of true scientists like

938
00:37:21,829 --> 00:37:20,160
jacques villa and eric davis

939
00:37:24,069 --> 00:37:21,839
but before we sign off here i just want

940
00:37:26,310 --> 00:37:24,079
to again highlight something that has

941
00:37:28,710 --> 00:37:26,320
been mentioned in this paper several

942
00:37:31,190 --> 00:37:28,720
times and that is that rather than

943
00:37:33,030 --> 00:37:31,200
ignoring this data because it is

944
00:37:35,430 --> 00:37:33,040
inconvenient and doesn't seem to fit

945
00:37:38,069 --> 00:37:35,440
with our current model of reality

946
00:37:41,030 --> 00:37:38,079
we should see this as an invitation

947
00:37:43,589 --> 00:37:41,040
to dream up models of reality that would

948
00:37:45,670 --> 00:37:43,599
make sense of this data in other words

949
00:37:48,390 --> 00:37:45,680
you can work in reverse you can see

950
00:37:50,630 --> 00:37:48,400
phenomena arising manifesting that has

951
00:37:52,790 --> 00:37:50,640
been evidenced multiple times by many

952
00:37:54,550 --> 00:37:52,800
witnesses all across the world and

953
00:37:56,710 --> 00:37:54,560
because you have strong evidence that

954
00:37:59,990 --> 00:37:56,720
this is objective data this is really

955
00:38:03,430 --> 00:38:00,000
happening you use that to then backtrack

956
00:38:05,190 --> 00:38:03,440
and conceive of metaphysical conceptions

957
00:38:07,829 --> 00:38:05,200
that would give rise to the kind of

958
00:38:09,589 --> 00:38:07,839
reality where those kinds of phenomena

959
00:38:11,670 --> 00:38:09,599
would indeed arise

960
00:38:14,310 --> 00:38:11,680
that's the invitation and from my point

961
00:38:16,870 --> 00:38:14,320
of view valley and davis are bang on in

962
00:38:19,030 --> 00:38:16,880
terms of that's where we do need to look

963
00:38:21,270 --> 00:38:19,040
i don't see it just as an invitation i

964
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:21,280
think it's a necessity i think the

965
00:38:26,150 --> 00:38:23,760
absurdity of the data demands that we

966
00:38:27,910 --> 00:38:26,160
look on that level that's exactly what

967
00:38:30,230 --> 00:38:27,920
i've been doing the book that i'm

968
00:38:32,630 --> 00:38:30,240
working on currently is tackling this

969
00:38:35,190 --> 00:38:32,640
topic from exactly that point of view

970
00:38:37,910 --> 00:38:35,200
what kind of model of reality would give

971
00:38:39,829 --> 00:38:37,920
rise to these kinds of phenomena not

972
00:38:43,670 --> 00:38:39,839
just in the ufo phenomenon but in

973
00:38:45,510 --> 00:38:43,680
parapsychology in physics etc

974
00:38:46,470 --> 00:38:45,520
and one last point before we sign off

975
00:38:47,829 --> 00:38:46,480
for today

976
00:38:50,310 --> 00:38:47,839
just a reminder that point of

977
00:38:52,150 --> 00:38:50,320
convergence now airs every second week

978
00:38:55,910 --> 00:38:52,160
and in the in between weeks i will be

979
00:38:59,430 --> 00:38:55,920
joined by nathan aka a waif soul

980
00:39:01,030 --> 00:38:59,440
to publish episodes of liminal frames

981
00:39:03,349 --> 00:39:01,040
if you're listening on youtube you can

982
00:39:05,670 --> 00:39:03,359
get both of those on my youtube channel

983
00:39:07,670 --> 00:39:05,680
exo academian and if you're listing on a

984
00:39:10,630 --> 00:39:07,680
podcast platform you'll want to

985
00:39:13,430 --> 00:39:10,640
subscribe to both of those podcasts both

986
00:39:17,829 --> 00:39:13,440
point of convergence and liminal frames

987
00:39:20,310 --> 00:39:17,839
liminal frames frame spell with a ph

988
00:39:22,230 --> 00:39:20,320
and on that note we've come to the close

989
00:39:24,470 --> 00:39:22,240
of another edition of the point of

990
00:39:26,710 --> 00:39:24,480
convergence podcast if you'd like to

991
00:39:29,349 --> 00:39:26,720
support this podcast you can do so by

992
00:39:32,230 --> 00:39:29,359
going to patreon.com

993
00:39:35,349 --> 00:39:32,240
exo academian and i do appreciate any

994
00:39:37,510 --> 00:39:35,359
patron support that is offered

995
00:39:39,430 --> 00:39:37,520
but until next time friends from deep

996
00:39:42,950 --> 00:39:39,440
within the blue ridge mountains of north